Bernard Jackman recalled a moment from his own international career as he responded to New Zealand Herald journalist Gregor Paul's criticism of the Ireland rugby team's "conduct" on the pitch.
Paul, who recently compared Ireland to the "arrogant" England side of the 1980s and early 1990s, was especially disapproving of Johnny Sexton and Peter O'Mahony's behaviour during the 2022 summer tour of New Zealand. That was the trip which saw Ireland defeat the All Blacks for the first time on New Zealand soil and claim a 2-1 series win.
According to Paul, New Zealanders will have raised eyebrows at the Irish conduct compared to their saintly All Blacks.
16 July 2022; Jonathan Sexton of Ireland reacts during the Steinlager Series match between the New Zealand and Ireland rugby team at Sky Stadium in Wellington, New Zealand. Photo by Brendan Moran/Sportsfile
"I think there needs to be a little bit of self-awareness when you're the world number one team and you've been there for a while," Paul told RTÉ Radio One's Today with Claire Byrne show.
"People start to pick up and watch and you get more analysed when you're the world number one team like the All Blacks were for decades.
"I don't think I would be telling people anything that they couldn't possibly be aware of. The Irish captain [Johnny Sexton], I love the guy. He's fantastic, brilliant player, love the way he plays, love his passion, his commitment.
"He does have a way about him, the way he talks to referees, the way he tries to get decisions to go his way. Certainly, when he was out in New Zealand last year, he had a habit of speaking his mind to some of the All Blacks; at times they didn't really appreciate [that]. He had a bit of a verbal exchange with Dane Coles on the touchline.
"60,000 Irish people in Paris tomorrow night will be behind Johnny Sexton but if you asked the people of Munster - and I don't know that much about Irish rugby - when he's wearing a Leinster jersey, and he's getting into the referee and he's getting into the Munster players, not everyone in Ireland loves him at that point either.
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9 July 2022; Peter O'Mahony of Ireland breaks past the challenge of Aidan Ross of New Zealand during the Steinlager Series match between the New Zealand and Ireland rugby team at the Forsyth Barr Stadium in Dunedin, New Zealand. Photo by Brendan Moran/Sportsfile
"And, of course, Peter O'Mahony had his famous sledge of Sam Cane, that I won't repeat on the air but it was very funny. It's been remembered by people in New Zealand about what was said and how these guys conducted themselves.
"That's what we're seeing at the moment. We're seeing a couple of characters in the Irish team that are extremely passionate about how they play and how they perform but probably it's a different style to what New Zealanders are used to from their own All Blacks in terms of how you conduct yourself."
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Jackman played nine times for Ireland. He was in the squad for the 2008 summer tour of New Zealand and Australia, when the All Blacks won 21-11, and also when the All Blacks visited Dublin later that year and won 22-3.
"I think maybe it's difficult to see that in your own country," Jackman responded when asked about Paul's criticism.
"Some of the All Blacks captains, the Richie McCaws, the Sean Fitzpatricks, I grew up watching them influence referees and taking no prisoners on the field - and rightly so, I don't think they should apologise for that.
15 November 2008; New Zealand's Ma'a Nonu, 12, celebrates with team-mates Rodney So'oialo, left, and Joe Rokocoko, right, after scoring his side's first try as Ireland's Brian O'Driscoll looks on. Guinness Autumn Internationals, Ireland v New Zealand, Croke Park, Dublin. Picture credit: Pat Murphy / SPORTSFILE
"It's not so long ago that I was part of an Irish team where we went in to try and swap jerseys with the All Blacks after the game and the Irish jersey wasn't good enough. They didn't want to swap it because they told us they'd worked too hard to get that All Black jersey. I understand that's their choice but that's the level the All Blacks are at compared to Ireland.
"The story about the jersey, that never got out. The only reason I'm telling it now is because we're accused of being arrogant. The only answer to that is to get yourself to a level where they want that Irish jersey. They want to be able to say that beating Ireland is a decent result. This Irish team has worked away quietly to get that level.
"Now we've joined them. I don't say surpassed them because we certainly haven't - we have a long way to go. But we are number one in the world. We hope we can do something special at this World Cup.
"I don't see any arrogance about this Irish team at all, to be honest, and from fans either. The only thing that's changed is that we hope we have a chance."
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