We've decided it's time to finally settle this office debate. Which team was better? The Ireland 1990 side or the team of 2002? In exactly 503 words each, two of us have presented the argument for both sides but it's up to you decide...
THE CASE FOR THE 1990 TEAM
I know what my adversary is going to say here (or at least what he should say). He's going to argue that one of the traditional arguments in favour of the Italia 90 side, that the players lined out for the top clubs in England, is only down to the fact that there were no foreigners playing in English football in the late 80s/early 90s.
I recognise and largely accept this (just as I understand my opponent has the advantage of pushing a quirky line and so should have the usual contrarian wind blowing behind him here).
However, to argue that the Italia 90 side were greater than the Korea/Japan outfit, I barely need to go any further than rely on the performances of both sides in the international arena.
The basic point in favour of the Italia 90 side is that they reached the quarter finals whereas the 2002 bunch only made the last 16 (despite the latter being a tournament made up for the underdog). In Italia 90, we also had a significantly tougher group to contend with. In Group F, we faced Holland, a team who had just won Euro 88 and were adorned with three players who had just won their second European Cup in a row, a decent England side who eventually were to reach the semi-finals, and an Egyptian side who thoroughly tested the other two sides in the group.
Contrast this with the pathetic crew the 2002 side faced, a hilariously overrated Cameroon side, the worst German team of all time, and one of the worst teams ever to participate in a World Cup, from any country, Saudi Arabia.
The Italia 90 team also achieved more before and after the tournament itself than the 2002 side, most of whom stayed around to usher Ireland into years of international football wilderness.
In Euro '88, (a competition which probably represents the peak of Irish football) Ireland were a whisker away from reaching the semi-final. For most of the USSR match, they utterly schooled the Russians, and it was only an absurdly fluky Wim Kieft goal late in the Dutch game that sent them out. Nine months after Italia 90, they would dominate England at Wembley, frustratingly only earning a draw.
And crucially, unlike the '02 brigade, most of the Italia 90 players would reach a second World Cup at USA '94.
In terms of personnel, the Italia 90 side were assuredly greater. Ray Houghton and John Aldridge were title winners with Liverpool (though Aldo had left by 1990). Paul McGrath is easily the most stylish defender we've ever had. Worthy workhorses like Matt Holland and Mark Kinsella would not have featured in Italia 90. The liability that was Ian Harte wouldn't have even been considered.
And between 1990 and 1993, Niall Quinn was as prolific in English League football as Robbie Keane ever managed to be. Instructively, a far less prolific Niall Quinn found it as easy to get on the pitch for Ireland in 2002.
Perhaps the ultimate proof, is that a Steve Staunton, at his best and still at Liverpool, was a significant player in 1990. By 2002, old and creaking, he was still being relied upon to fill in at centre half (not his best position) alongside an unattached player.
Conor Neville
THE CASE FOR THE 2002 IRISH TEAM
Arguing against a team which gave us the greatest ever moment in Irish football history is a daunting task but one that I'm not going to shy away from.
Granted the 1990 team made it further in the World Cup and sure, they boasted a squad of players at much bigger clubs than Charlton Athletic and the like but we're talking about a completely different era in English football. Had the likes of Robbie Keane, Shay Given, Damien Duff, Ian Harte and Steve Finnan been around in 1990 then I'm sure they would have been plying their trade at the top clubs in England.
Indeed, Duff would go to win a Premier League with Chelsea, Finnan a Champions League and FA Cup, while Ian Harte had played a starring role in Leeds Utd's short stay among the top dogs of English football. Meanwhile, Keane and Given proved in 2002 and beyond that they are shoe-ins for the all time Irish XI.
With regard to the 1990 team, let's not kid ourselves here. While we getting to the World Cup quarter-finals was a commendable achievement they didn't exactly set the world alight. It could be argued that the tournament came a year or two too late for them. What they would meet in the 2002 squad is a team playing the best football of Mick McCarthy's time as manager. A team who had matched Portugal and beaten Holland in their quest to qualify, a team who outplayed Germany and Spain for large parts in tournament proper.
And of course, a team who actually won a game in the World Cup.
The one area I fear is central midfield but I think it's made up for by the attacking prowess of Messrs Keane and Duff. They would have wreaked havoc on a defence that consisted of Kevin Moran, a man who was about join second division Blackburn Rovers, Mick McCarthy, a man moving permanently to a recently relegated club in Millwall, Steve Staunton and Chris Morris.
In contrast, 2002 Gary Breen was in the form of his life and being chased by Barcelona and Inter Milan, Staunton, while lacking pace, wouldn't have to worry about that too much coming up against Tony Cascarino and John Aldridge, and the stock of Steve Finnan and Ian Harte was fast on the rise, albeit that Harte was in poor form at the World Cup.
The class of 2002 would also hold the benefit of being able to mix things up if needs be. The option of Niall Quinn off the bench is what swings it for me. His aerial prowess would offer a different challenge to the tired legs of McCarthy and Staunton after running after Duff and Keane for 70 minutes. His impact against Germany in the World Cup is a perfect example.
The 1990 team have no plan B. Their only hope of beating the 2002 brigade would be to bore us into submission. Nothing new there then.
In closing, my reasons for arguing the 2002 team would be the 1990 are three fold: Gary Breen, Gary Breen and Gary Breen.
Mark Farrelly
[polldaddy poll="7900067"]
![We've decided it's time to finally settle this office debate. Which team was better? The Ireland 1990 side or the team of 2002? In exactly 503 words each, two of us have presented the argument for both sides but it's up to you decide... THE CASE FOR THE 1990 TEAM I know what my adversary is going to say here (or at least what he should say). He's going to argue that one of the traditional arguments in favour of the Italia 90 side, that the players lined out for the top clubs in England, is only down to the fact that there were no foreigners playing in English football in the late 80s/early 90s. I recognise and largely accept this (just as I understand my opponent has the advantage of pushing a quirky line and so should have the usual contrarian wind blowing behind him here). However, to argue that the Italia 90 side were greater than the Korea/Japan outfit, I barely need to go any further than rely on the performances of both sides in the international arena. The basic point in favour of the Italia 90 side is that they reached the quarter finals whereas the 2002 bunch only made the last 16 (despite the latter being a tournament made up for the underdog). In Italia 90, we also had a significantly tougher group to contend with. In Group F, we faced Holland, a team who had just won Euro 88 and were adorned with three players who had just won their second European Cup in a row, a decent England side who eventually were to reach the semi-finals, and an Egyptian side who thoroughly tested the other two sides in the group. Contrast this with the pathetic crew the 2002 side faced, a hilariously overrated Cameroon side, the worst German team of all time, and one of the worst teams ever to participate in a World Cup, from any country, Saudi Arabia. The Italia 90 team also achieved more before and after the tournament itself than the 2002 side, most of whom stayed around to usher Ireland into years of international football wilderness. In Euro '88, (a competition which probably represents the peak of Irish football) Ireland were a whisker away from reaching the semi-final. For most of the USSR match, they utterly schooled the Russians, and it was only an absurdly fluky Wim Kieft goal late in the Dutch game that sent them out. Nine months after Italia 90, they would dominate England at Wembley, frustratingly only earning a draw. And crucially, unlike the '02 brigade, most of the Italia 90 players would reach a second World Cup at USA '94. In terms of personnel, the Italia 90 side were assuredly greater. Ray Houghton and John Aldridge were title winners with Liverpool (though Aldo had left by 1990). Paul McGrath is easily the most stylish defender we've ever had. Worthy workhorses like Matt Holland and Mark Kinsella would not have featured in Italia 90. The liability that was Ian Harte wouldn't have even been considered. And between 1990 and 1993, Niall Quinn was as prolific in English League football as Robbie Keane ever managed to be. Instructively, a far less prolific Niall Quinn found it as easy to get on the pitch for Ireland in 2002. Perhaps the ultimate proof, is that a Steve Staunton, at his best and still at Liverpool, was a significant player in 1990. By 2002, old and creaking, he was still being relied upon to fill in at centre half (not his best position) alongside an unattached player. Conor Neville THE CASE FOR THE 2002 IRISH TEAM Arguing against a team which gave us the greatest ever moment in Irish football history is a daunting task but one that I'm not going to shy away from. Granted the 1990 team made it further in the World Cup and sure, they boasted a squad of players at much bigger clubs than Charlton Athletic and the like but we're talking about a completely different era in English football. Had the likes of Robbie Keane, Shay Given, Damien Duff, Ian Harte and Steve Finnan been around in 1990 then I'm sure they would have been plying their trade at the top clubs in England. Indeed, Duff would go to win a Premier League with Chelsea, Finnan a Champions League and FA Cup, while Ian Harte had played a starring role in Leeds Utd's short stay among the top dogs of English football. Meanwhile, Keane and Given proved in 2002 and beyond that they are shoe-ins for the all time Irish XI. With regard to the 1990 team, let's not kid ourselves here. While we getting to the World Cup quarter-finals was a commendable achievement they didn't exactly set the world alight. It could be argued that the tournament came a year or two too late for them. What they would meet in the 2002 squad is a team playing the best football of Mick McCarthy's time as manager. A team who had matched Portugal and beaten Holland in their quest to qualify, a team who outplayed Germany and Spain for large parts in tournament proper. And of course, a team who actually won a game in the World Cup. The one area I fear is central midfield but I think it's made up for by the attacking prowess of Messrs Keane and Duff. They would have wreaked havoc on a defence that consisted of Kevin Moran, a man who was about join second division Blackburn Rovers, Mick McCarthy, a man moving permanently to a recently relegated club in Millwall, Steve Staunton and Chris Morris. [Watch Video] In contrast, 2002 Gary Breen was in the form of his life and being chased by Barcelona and Inter Milan, Staunton, while lacking pace, wouldn't have to worry about that too much coming up against Tony Cascarino and John Aldridge, and the stock of Steve Finnan and Ian Harte was fast on the rise, albeit that Harte was in poor form at the World Cup. The class of 2002 would also hold the benefit of being able to mix things up if needs be. The option of Niall Quinn off the bench is what swings it for me. His aerial prowess would offer a different challenge to the tired legs of McCarthy and Staunton after running after Duff and Keane for 70 minutes. His impact against Germany in the World Cup is a perfect example. The 1990 team have no plan B. Their only hope of beating the 2002 brigade would be to bore us into submission. Nothing new there then. In closing, my reasons for arguing the 2002 team would be the 1990 are three fold: Gary Breen, Gary Breen and Gary Breen. Mark Farrelly [polldaddy poll="7900067"] Advertisement](https://media.balls.ie/uploads/2014/03/088985-horz.jpg){kind=link}
